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I agree with Susan that diploma schools need to come into existence again. As graduates, we were able to independently perform tasks that could not be learned completely in books. The students today do not even work a full shift. During our senior year we were team leaders working a 40-hour week. What better way to learn!

Sandra Roden,  RN-C,  HospitalOctober 27, 2008
Humble, TX

I've nursed for 33 years. When the big whigs decided that a bedside nurse had to have a BSN or not be considered a "real" nurse I knew that it was going to go downhill. You require more education, but the pay isn't increased (only what's kept up with the job market) I left for ambulatory care 20 years ago and never looked back. I wouldn't make a dog work in a hospital now.

Karin Buchanan,  RNOctober 25, 2008
Parkville, MD

Why oh why is this all happening??? Thank the regulatory agencies, the hospitals and the money hungry universities! Bring back the hospital based nursing education experience and the nursing shortage will be helped. We diploma graduate nurse hate to say this but WE TOLD YOU THIS WOULD HAPPEN!

Susan OleneackOctober 24, 2008

I have wondered for years, and sat watching in amazement at the way nursing constantly finds ways to be its own worse enemy. I agree that nursing needs to return to nursing schools where time and attention is given to the students to develop their skill and abilities to actually care for patients and to observe the students characters and abilities. Instructors do not need a masters degree to teach nursing. When I was obtaining my BSN in a class of working seasoned nurse, the instructors were so out of it, and were stating such nutty philosophies about nursing, that none of us had a bit of respect for them. It was obvious to the class, that these people had been sitting in academia so long, they didn't have a clue what was really going on in nursing. Two years ago while teaching part-time in a Vocational school LPN program, I sat at a faculty meeting listening to the director begging us all to try and find people who would be willing to come there and teach. In the next sentence, she talked about the new issue, that the ONA thought all nurses teaching LPNs should b required to obtain an MSN in the next 18 months. When I objected to the idiocy of the whole matter in light of the fact that we could not get nurses to teach now, I was told that we must "always strive for better." I don't think we need that type of improvement, nor do I call that an improvement. The only thing that could be called is, "shooting ones self in the foot." Now they want to require this MSN, while at the same time, only hiring instructors as part time with no benifits, and at a pay rate of $4-10.00/hours less than the going rate for staff nurses in the city. While I taught, I worked a part time job during the day with benifits to be able to teach because I loved it so much. Three days a week I had six hours sleep in between shifts, in order to do it.


Kathleen Torello,  RN,BSN,COHN-SOctober 24, 2008
Cincinnati, OH

I am a diploma graduate with 40+ years' experience in several clinical areas, including a stint as an Air Force nurse. My current employer developed a "clinical ladder" to recognize and pay for the different levels of education and experience. However, a diploma grad is not even mentioned on the ladder. I agree with the above comments from other diploma nurses. Let's get back to the basic bedside nursing as we were taught. I respect those with an MSN degree and they should be paid what they are worth. But why does it take an MSN or BSN to teach students how to give an injection or perform other "hands-on" care?

Nancy ,  RNOctober 24, 2008
FL

My favorite job in my 30 year nursing career was that of faculty in a school of nursing. But, I had to move on to business to make any money. I'd like nothing better that to go back to teaching. I have an MSN, am published, and have lots of experience. I can't work for free, though. Nurse educators need to be paid what they are worth. Many don't even make what their student do in entry level jobs. We must fix this to get quality educators and make the profession more attractive.

Rebecca October 24, 2008
IL

I feel that requiring all nursing faculty to have an MSN is one of the main reasons for the faculty shortage. If one is required to obtain an MSN for this position, the pay should be comparable to the amount of education invested. Nursing Schools would become even more expensive if all faculty were paid what they deserved according to their education. One option that might work well to help increase the faculty shortage and help with the institution's financial burden of paying every faculty member with an MSN what they are worth, is to have a Clinical Director who would be required to have an MSN. Under her direction there could be 4-5 Clinical Educators. The minimum requirement for a Clinical Educator could be a BSN or Batchelor's in a related field. The C.E.'s would be responsible for teaching, grading & clinicals. The C.E.'s would report to their Clinical Director weekly or prn to discuss their student's progress. The Clinical Director would be a valuable resource to the C.E. because of her education and experience. This way, all faculty and students will be indirectly evaluated by a person with an MSN. This is how the hospitals are run. You have a manager, then asst. nurse manager and then the staff nurses. The manager is ultimately responsible for everyone but the asst. nurse managers relate directly to the staff. I think that more nurses would be willing to teach if they didn't have to go back to school. It would also help the schools financially if they would only have to pay a few nurses with MSN's a higher wage and less to the BSN nurses. Then maybe the nurses who do have their MSN's could finally be paid what they are worth.

Kimberly  Ludwig ,  RN,  Hosp.October 23, 2008
Scottsdale , AZ

I have become so tired of listening to nurse academics direct other nurses & control the system without having much clinical experstise. There is a place for academics, however if you are the patient ( and I have been) you never ask the nurses acadmeic credentials.

Joan Langan,  RN-BC, CCMOctober 23, 2008
Aston, PA

As an RN with a MSN, I couldn't afford to teach Nursing full time. The pay rates were so low in California I would have had to spend my weekends in a part-time job to make ends meet. If that is the value placed on my skills as a nurse and as an experienced nurse educator than that tells me that quality new nurses aren't really wanted, just cheapest method please! In other countries the educators are well paid in order to ensure quality education for the new grads. Yes cross appointments for clinical placments is the best answer for practice as this writer suggests. But the whole system is skewed.

Cher ,  RNOctober 23, 2008
san francisco, CA

I agree that many well-qualified nurses are able to teach without a MSN. I did it for years, but was terminated in 1998, along with 2 other faculty with Master's Education, because we lacked the MSN. Did that make us less capable? Absolutely NOT! We were able to instill in many nurses the love for bedside nursing and skills that we had acquired over many years. Master's and PhD programs emphasize research, important, but far away from the bedside where most nurses love to practice. Patients need care, not statistics! Let's return to giving it!

Beverly Premo,  RN,  Baystate HealthOctober 23, 2008
Springfield, MA

It is ridiculous that nursing faculty must have a MSN. Why can't nurses with years of experience and a Master's in Health Science teach our upcoming nurses? There would not be such a shortage of educators if the MSN was not required. I have spoken to many colleges and they all state, "I don't want to go through nursing school for a second time." The MSN program is very time consuming, many nurses who have years of experience also can't make the sacrifice of their jobs to complete full time clinicals etc. Many excellent nurses who could give their expertise to new nurses are taken right out of the pool because they don't have the MSN degree. I understand Nursing wants to acheive a high standard, but there will be less and less teachers for new nurses if this requirement is not changed.

Dawn GerbinoOctober 23, 2008

JILL wrote:

"Some of the most skilled and knowledgable nurses I have ever known came from Diploma Schools. These nurses learned hands on while providing care.
I have been saying for years that a return to this type of education will solve the nursing shortage providing much needed care and education of those who desire to become nurses, but are turned away from Nursing Programs because of the limited number of faculty." -- Jill October 20, 2008

Hello Jill,

I totally agree with your take on the best way to solve the nursing shortage. I believe the nursing shortage is due to nurses who do not want to continue being used up and abused by the healthcare facilities they have or still work for. The abuse has got to come to a halt in order to stop nurses from leaving the field, or to increase retention of good nurses who simply reach a point of being fed up with the abuse, and look elsewhere for better treatment.

Nursing has not advanced in the real sense of what patient care and health care should look be. If anything, we are doing more harm than good by placing too much focus on advancing technologically while failing to keep our focus on the real reason we became nurses in the first place - caring for the sick and dying from all walks of life (this does not exclude doctors, or any other health professional from the cycle of abuse today's healthcare has become). Although I am not a diploma grad, I have worked with many diploma nurses. Diploma nurses are very sharp, on the mark with patient care, and know what it takes to bring healthcare back to what it should be -- taking it out of the hands of the greedy business sector that is destroying healthcare as a whole.

Nurses have lost the autonomy we used to have in directing our patients care. We need that autonomy back. We need the respect and support of those in positions of authority over nursing as a whole in order for that to be most effective.

I've been a nurse for almost 22 years, and I've only seen healthcare decline...not improve.



Renee WilliamsOctober 22, 2008
Colorado Springs, CO

I have always felt that my 24 years of bedside nursing experience would be a valuable asset to any nursing school in the form of a clinical instructor. I would love to be able to work per diem in the ER and perhaps 3 days a week as a Clinical Instructor at a local university. The problem is this work doesn't pay well and nurses, like everyone else, have bills to pay. Also they usually require a masters degree in education-another barrier. Nursing schools should pay better and have some type of bridge program for clinical instructors with only BSN's to prepare them as educators as quickly as possible to get them teaching clinical courses for their nursing school students.

Karen ,  RN BSN CENOctober 21, 2008
NY

Some of the most skilled and knowledgable nurses I have ever known came from Diploma Schools. These nurses learned hands on while providing care.
I have been saying for years that a return to this type of education will solve the nursing shortage providing much needed care and education of those who desire to become nurses, but are turned away from Nursing Programs because of the limited number of faculty.

Jill October 20, 2008

Ms. Siegel makes a point that clinical teaching is as physically as demanding as bedside nursing, but I must support the author's call for creative solutions involving the implementation of the suggested dual roles. While education rightfully requires the MSN, several advantages are at play here when thinking out of the box toward dual roles.
First, to assume the instructor is the only valid source of knowledge is shortsighted and overlooks the contribution that other qualified practitioners can offer to the student. Second, involving staff in even some areas of an alternate role has been a proven means of exposing the nurse to an area of practice that he or she may not have previously considered. Last, George Siemens "connectivist" learning theory, particularly as applied by Etienne Wenger in his work on "communities of practice," has much to offer the nursing profession. These concepts can and should be applied and researched in the microcosm of our units and practices.





Ritamarie Giosa,  MSN, RN, CPNOctober 20, 2008
NJ

Although I agree there is a severe nursing faculty shortage and we need to be innovative in responding- there are more issues than just clinical coverage. In the state of NJ, faculty need to have at least a Master's in Nursing - this is teach theory and clinical. Therefore all staff nurse do not meet this requirement. As far as less physically challenging- I dispute that as well. I am on my feet with 10 students from the time I arrive on the medical surgical unit. I am giving medications, performing procedures, assisting with mobility and hygiene needs. No every nursing school is designed around the student working with the staff nurse and the faculty passively supervising. I am exhausted when I get home and now, nursing programs are doing 12 hour days to get the required clinical hours. I applaud the author and there is a definite need for faculty, but less stressful? I don't think so.

Tracey  Siegel,  MSN RN CNEOctober 15, 2008
NJ


     

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